Downsizing BlazBlue sprites to conform with Street Fighter Alpha/CvS2

[NickyP]

So I'd like some thoughts on this. In Project FGC, I've resized some characters from BlazBlue to be what I thought was an adequate percentage to match with Street Fighter Alpha/Capcom vs SNK 2 proportions, but now I'm thinking I maybe made them too small.

See the image below.

Two different resizes of Ragna are juxtaposed with Ryu and Terry from Capcom vs SNK 2. Ragna at 28% is what I'm currently using in Project FGC. However, I'm fearing that Ragna at 29% would proportionally be more accurate.

What are your opinions? I'd hate to have to resize, reprocess, and recode all those characters again... but I also would hate to make more characters from BlazBlue, only to realize I really did go too small.

 

[kimono]

Hi NickyP, 28 or 29% doesn't change that much. I think you can continue to develop your game without being embarrased by that .

 

[Miru]

I think 29% looks a little better. I now wonder how much you’d have to downsize Skullgirls sprites by...

 

[O Ilusionista]

Nick, the main problem with that sprites is not the height, but the width. 28% heigh is fine to me, but he looks skinny.
Just compare his arms with the other guys.

 

[DCurrent]

Nick, the main problem with that sprites is not the height, but the width. 28% heigh is fine to me, but he looks skinny.
Just compare his arms with the other guys.

May not be much NickyP can do about that. BlazeBlue is pretty much the MVC engine + every anime stereotype you can think of thrown in a blender. One of those being edgelords with ridiculously impractical weapons and anorexic bodies that by rights shouldn't carry their own weight. That sort of art style has very specific proportions, and I doubt they're ever going to resize well without retouching.

DC

 

[danno]

 

[NickyP]

I now wonder how much you’d have to downsize Skullgirls sprites by...

How does 14% look? Filia is short even compared to the other Skullgirls fighters, so it seems about right to me.

Nick, the main problem with that sprites is not the height, but the width.

To Damon Caskey 's point, Ragna isn't too buff compared to some of the other BlazBlue characters. As an experiment, here's the same sprite comparison image with Azrael instead:

I've provided Ragna's raw sprite below, if you have suggestions. I'm looking for a resize percentage I can use across the board for all BlazBlue characters.

 

[danno]

You're not going to be able to find a one size to use across the board for all BlazBlue characters because of the art style, capcom/snk style relates to each character to character in style and appearance in anime characters don't relate to each other at all in size or appearance, the only thing that is the same in anime is drawing technique of characters

 

28% height 38% width gives a similar appearance and size to the other characters, with any other blazblue character this won't be possible same with skull girls because even in their own games characters dont relate to each other in size or appearance only in drawing technique, having a one size fits all percentage for anime characters next to any other style of character is gonna look real crappy.

I would resize each and every character on its own to a set standard or not at all otherwise you're gonna have a lot of funny looking characters bouncing around next to each other.

 

[Miru]

14 percent's good for Fillia. I think she works well there. And yeah, scale varies when it comes to HD characters. Now, how could old-school (heavy shading/dithers, more realistic shading/color, etc; think Fighters History, Kaiser Knuckle, and the like) and digitized characters be handled? Would they need to be redrawn?

 

[NickyP]

28% height 38% width gives a similar appearance and size to the other characters, with any other blazblue character this won't be possible same with skull girls because even in their own games characters dont relate to each other in size or appearance only in drawing technique, having a one size fits all percentage for anime characters next to any other style of character is gonna look real crappy.

I hear you, but respectfully I think 28%H 38%W looks way worse than a one size fits all percentage.

 

[danno]

28% height 38% would only be for that character other blazblue/skull girls I'd use different percentages that's why I mentioned a set standard for example Ryu and work out every other characters percentages from there

each one of these blazblue characters has a completely different percentage from each other and I used ryu as the set standard, all characters relate to each other in size and appearance this way and nothing looks too out of place. thats how I'd do it to give everything a more unified look

 

[DCurrent]

...

I think danno is the man with the plan here. Only thing is I think I'd still want to do some minor cleanup. The resizes look alright on their own, but not compared to CVS Ryu. The main selling point of CVS art style is how clean it looks. Putting down-sampled sprites next to it really makes them stick out IMO.

DC

 

[NickyP]

I just don't see it. Individual percentages per character makes no sense, because it ignores the characters proportions in relation to each other. You'd have to scale them down uniformly to maintain consistency. Otherwise, it's like resizing SFA Sagat's sprite to match SFA Ryu's height. The characters' anatomy just isn't proportioned that way.

Look at Ragna and Azrael in danno's example, and then look at the characters side-by-side in their unaltered sprites (along with a few other Blazblue characters for reference):

(Note: imgur may have resized the image, but the point stands)

In danno's example, Ragna and Azrael are about the same height and have a similar build. In their unaltered iterations, one is lean and moderately tall, while the other is ripped and towering. For this reason, the characters have to be resized with a uniform percentage across the board.

Only thing is I think I'd still want to do some minor cleanup.

That part I'll agree with. Resizing without anti-aliasing and then cleaning up the details is the best solution. The problem is, Blazblue characters easily have some 1,200 frames, and it's already taking me months to complete a character that doesn't require additional sprite work due to life obligations. OpenBOR is certainly a labor of love, but even I don't love it that much! 

 

[danno]

If you were just making a Blazblue game then sure they all make sense stood next to each other obviously like in your image, bit of an odd point to make but even just the blazblue characters stood next to each other looks off, only thing that unifies them is drawing technique as I mentioned earlier so Stick Ryu and Terry in the mix from completely different games then not  much uniform and much more odd lucking proportion wise like in your original post, I don't understand are you wanting your characters from different games to have similar proportions to each other or not? If so you've got a lot of work to do because not only do they all look different they all animate different too frames per attack. some skull girls simple jab attacks have 10 or more frames, you'll have to set an animation standard too or else the game will be unbalanced and cheap, If it's just between 28% and 29% then as Kimono said it doesn't change much.

 

[NickyP]

I don't understand are you wanting your characters from different games to have similar proportions to each other or not?

My guy, it's not complicated. I want the HD characters scaled down for the same aspect ratio that Street Fighter Alpha and Capcom vs SNK's characters were drawn for.

Project FGC was partially inspired by Blazblue Cross Tag, which is almost like a commercial MUGEN compilation of Arc System Works' fighting games. Cross Tag's sprites, when extracted from the game, are surprisingly wildly differing in their sizes:

Once you're actually in-game, however...

... you would've never known otherwise.

That's more or less what I'm aiming for. As if you just warped the characters from one game into the other, without altering their art style. Not to mention, keeping the Blazblue characters true to their source proportions is handy for the day I inevitably want to make a Blazblue mod--I'm saving myself work later on.

Hence, the first post in this topic: did I make the BB characters in Project FGC too small, or are they just right?

 

[Matin Grigr]

It seems like your best bet is going to be to scale limbs individually on the blazblue characters to match corresponding cvs characters of similar canonical size. Possibly even the head or torso too. You could do that much easier on the blazblue sprites before scaling them down. They should look cleaner that way.

After a couple of sprites have been scaled, you should have a pretty decent calculation on what parts of the body are going to have to be scaled across the rest of the sprites. Obviously, you'll have to do some adjusting here and there, but it should probably be fairly consistent.

Time consuming, but easier than drawing them again from scratch.

 

[danno]

My guy, it's not complicated.

Buddy let me explain something to you because you seem to be confusing yourself while making out how simple it is

I've resized some characters from BlazBlue to be what I thought was an adequate percentage to match with Street Fighter Alpha/Capcom vs SNK 2 proportions,

and

I want the HD characters scaled down for the same aspect ratio that Street Fighter Alpha and Capcom vs SNK's characters were drawn for.

These are two completely different things, one is proportions to match capcom/snk characters the other is scaling while maintaining aspect ratio

I explained how to do the former, I also explained doing doing the latter is not possible due to difference in drawing technique, again if the drawing technique is similar like the examples you keep posting (anime) then its much easier to do and convincing to the eye, your later posts are incompatible with your original post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfKdNxIOcQ

 

[DCurrent]

danno & NickyP,

Ease up a bit guys, things are starting to get a little too hostile.

DC

 

[danno]

My bad, I take full responsibility for any hostility perceived, I often use humour but it can come across as hostile depending on the situation, I apologize to all parties involved especially you Nicky.

 

[O Ilusionista]

Individual percentages per character makes no sense, because it ignores the characters proportions in relation to each other. You'd have to scale them down uniformly to maintain consistency. Otherwise, it's like resizing SFA Sagat's sprite to match SFA Ryu's height. The characters' anatomy just isn't proportioned that way.

I have to agree with Nicky here. I can't use different values for different characters. UNLESS they come from different games.
You have to find a common ground for each game (there won't be magic numbers), probably using someone on a "default" or common height for every game and then start from there.

To Damon Caskey 's point, Ragna isn't too buff compared to some of the other BlazBlue characters. As an experiment, here's the same sprite comparison image with Azrael instead:

Completing with I said above, about finding a common ground from each game (IOW, someone with the same body type). But you will need to work the height and width differently, because they won't match - each game uses a different ratio for that.

So, if you just put the height in place, it will be wrong.