Number of palettes for a char

[16-bit Fighter]

It's not a technical question, it's just about your personal tastes. How many alternate palettes at most a char should have?

 

[NED]

3 to 6 is ok I think.

 

[danno]

players 5 enemies 10

 

[DCurrent]

Subjective to the game. I'm all about choice, but I think the line to draw is where things get just odd or out of character. When you're giving Zangief pink skin or Ken a lime green gi (yes I know those are actual things - that's the point), it's time to take a step back.

Incidentally, since OpenBOR is a 32bit application and palettes use a signed integer index, there is a technical limit of exactly 2,147,483,647 palettes per model. Sorry to stifle your creativity like that.

DC

 

[O Ilusionista]

This is very subjective, really.
The onle "rule" I follow and sugges is: make all the players to have the same amount of palettes each one.

On my AUBF, I gave 6 palettes to every player. And since 95% of the palettes are based on real costumes they use, I had to ballance it - or some characters (like Red Hulk) would have 2 while Spider-Man would have 20

Incidentally, since OpenBOR is a 32bit application and palettes use a signed integer index, there is a technical limit of exactly 2,147,483,647 palettes per model. Sorry to stifle your creativity like that.

I still remember when I asked you that question you and replied "make palletes to your heart content"

Right now, the helper entity uses 24 palettes and I had no issues with that yet.

 

[DCurrent]

Right now, the helper entity uses 24 palettes and I had no issues with that yet.

It will never matter unless you start making hundreds, and even then only on consoles that are bereft of RAM. Palettes are an O(1) operation for the engine to sift through. In other words, it's exactly the same CPU time during game play to pull up the two billionth palette as the first.

The only thing palettes add from a resource standpoint are RAM use and loading time, and both are nominal. Each palette is a maximum of 768 bytes. That's roughly half of a typical sprite frame. You'll wear your mouse out before you make enough palettes to affect performance.

DC

 

[16-bit Fighter]

Thanks guys, it's good to know your points of view! I guess there are more existing. So I'm still ready to read others. ^^

3 to 6 is ok I think.

players 5 enemies 10

Then does it mean you dislike the number of palettes of some Rocket Viper's chars (Kim, Akuma and Maki have beteween 7 and 11 alternates one)? And can you appreciate more palettes than you wrote if there are smartpalettes for a char?

 

[DCurrent]

Then does it mean you dislike the number of palettes of some Rocket Viper's chars (Kim, Akuma and Maki have beteween 7 and 11 alternates one)?

I can't speak for others @16-bit Fighter, but it's not a matter of dislike just because there's more choices. That would be absurd. It's more a matter of diminishing returns. You spend time making 50 palettes for the playable characters, and maybe a few people like that, but most won't give a crap either way.

If you want to add a bunch because that's your thing, then do it. Very few people will care at all, and nobody is going to think less of you for it.

DC

 

[NED]

Thanks guys, it's good to know your points of view! I guess there are more existing. So I'm still ready to read others. ^^



Then does it mean you dislike the number of palettes of some Rocket Viper's chars (Kim, Akuma and Maki have beteween 7 and 11 alternates one)? And can you appreciate more palettes than you wrote if there are smartpalettes for a char?

No, not really. as @DCurrent said. It's all about subjectivity. (Just no need to go in excess or trying to fill with absurd colors)
I sure like when a game have many palettes, because there are more chances to find one I really like.
I feel the same with mugen charcter using the "color selector" code. THat allow to change you palette in the fight intro.
Sometimes, creators goes crazy because a lot of people give them palettes to a precise character, and you can end up with more than 80 palettes to select during the character intro. With 10 of them with weird colors, 20 of them out of charcter cosplays palettes, perhaps 5 really badly done or uninspired etc...
So, when this situation happens, as I said, I scroll through the palettes to find at least decent one that fits the character.

In Openbor, one more condition for colors is to avoid very strange palettes that would make your character too "different" from the game itself (landscape, enemies etc.)
Just my point of view ^^

So, number of palette = you decide.

 

[Kratus]

It's not a technical question, it's just about your personal tastes. How many alternate palettes at most a char should have?

@16-bit Fighter
My two cents about this topic according to my personal tastes, like you asked. The main rule I use for players is at least having a number of palettes equivalent to the max. allowed players (Example, max. players is 3 and total palettes is 3 for each playable char).

For enemies it depends on how many times this character will be repeated in different health/power levels. For example, in SORX Galsia has 5 palettes but Jack has 3 (the playable version has 4 due to the 4 players max.).

Any palette above it I consider a plus, some of them in SORX were added because they are cool or because they already exist in the classics.

 

[danno]

As NED and DC said it's also subjective to the game you're making, In spiderman I gave him 12 costumes from a smart palette

The cop enemies only have 1 blue palette any other colour wouldn't look right.

 

[16-bit Fighter]

I can't speak for others @16-bit Fighter, but it's not a matter of dislike just because there's more choices. That would be absurd. It's more a matter of diminishing returns. You spend time making 50 palettes for the playable characters, and maybe a few people like that, but most won't give a crap either way.

If you want to add a bunch because that's your thing, then do it. Very few people will care at all, and nobody is going to think less of you for it.

DC

Let's assume that we talk about good palettes. But I agree the task is a subtile ballance between quality, relevant choices, reasonable spent time and without making too many. 50 palettes seem to me abviously a number oversized, by example. I think I could make a little more than 10 well thought alt palettes.

So, when this situation happens, as I said, I scroll through the palettes to find at least decent one that fits the character.

It's very boring to scroll (even more if the palettes aren't good). It's why I don't want to make more than 20 ones.

Any palette above it I consider a plus, some of them in SORX were added because they are cool or because they already exist in the classics.

Yes, classic palettes are avoidable IMO.

As NED and DC said it's also subjective to the game you're making, In spiderman I gave him 12 costumes from a smart palette

I was right to ask again about smart pal. ^^

 

[Die_In_Fire]

Mostly has been said, and yeah I agree it just depends on the game.
For games like Golden Axe I wouldn’t mind player palettes with different skin colors, but certainly I would not like that on Final Fight players, just personal preference.

Enemies having lot of palettes are a must IMO, that subtle change to the eye can make things very different. That’s a reason on why Konami gave so many palettes to the foot soldiers, they are simply the enemies you’ll face through all the game and fighting always the black/purple variety would be boring to the eye.
It also depends on what exactly are you changing with the palette: I gave enemies on Enter the Double Dragon two different changes, one different color of clothes, and other different color of skin/hair. So on my case I can have the same enemy using the same color clothes but having different hair/skin color for a multiple variation, and extra on that, other palettes to give different clothes colors.

Some type of enemies like cops, would look bad with palettes changing the uniform, so to add variation just change the hair color instead, or the skin color, or why not both. That immediately gives you at least 4 different palettes keeping the same uniform.

 

[Bloodbane]

For me, I prefer to give main characters/heroes to have 5 alternate palettes, usually varying color from main red, main blue, main green and black n white.

 

[16-bit Fighter]

Some type of enemies like cops, would look bad with palettes changing the uniform, so to add variation just change the hair color instead, or the skin color, or why not both. That immediately gives you at least 4 different palettes keeping the same uniform.

The other option is to change the head but if one enemy is treated like that, I think the players would like the same treatment for all the enemies or almost (like in FF).

For me, I prefer to give main characters/heroes to have 5 alternate palettes, usually varying color from main red, main blue, main green and black n white.

It's a good idea to avoid risky choices. ^^

 

[kimono]

I like that some alternate palettes also refer to well-known or lesser-known characters. Example in Way of Martial Arts, palette 0 and 1 clearly refer to Ryu and Ken, palette 6 to Marco Rodrigues from Garou MOTW, palette 12 to Gouki...

This allows you to use the same sprite but to have the impression of ending up with a totally different character, I like it

 

[16-bit Fighter]

This allows you to use the same sprite but to have the impression of ending up with a totally different character, I like it

I like it too!