Need some analyse on my sprite animation work

[Mr.Din]

I feel Shiva is a balance of power and speed myself. the combo in SoRR is actually reversed it' two hooks into a palm thrust ending in a rising kick which made his combo a lot more speed like IMO. I always appreciate change and taking liberties however.

as for the frames it all depends which game you're trying to replicate, each of them have a small difference in speed between each.

 

[NED]

Looks good.
I would have replaced the 2nd punch with some straight punch (anything using his right punch) Because transition is kind of unnatural between punch and fire kick.

Also, I have to point out that his pants darker color is changed in the punch anim.
Perhaps a mix of different spritesets?
Be careful with that.
It may cause palette problems in the future

Keep it up!

 

[patataboy]

Looks good.
I would have replaced the 2nd punch with some straight punch (anything using his right punch) Because transition is kind of unnatural between punch and fire kick.

Like I said ... this is not the actual combo. The combo is 2 uraken, two straight (both hands), the front high kick and the Palm Straight for the finish
I just put the punch and the double kick for fun and see what happens when I put everything together.

Also, I have to point out that his pants darker color is changed in the punch anim.
Perhaps a mix of different spritesets?
Be careful with that.
It may cause palette problems in the future

Damn, you are right. While completely redesigning fei long sprite to make shiva punch I changed every colors but the black ... and it is not black. 
How stupid of me 

Keep it up!

Thanks

 

[patataboy]

I feel Shiva is a balance of power and speed myself. the combo in SoRR is actually reversed it' two hooks into a palm thrust ending in a rising kick which made his combo a lot more speed like IMO. I always appreciate change and taking liberties however.

as for the frames it all depends which game you're trying to replicate, each of them have a small difference in speed between each.

The more I'm looking at videos on youtube, the more it seems that you can put any time between frames and it goes from 33ms to 100ms (but then again those videos are from SOR Remake, not Open BOR)
If it is the case, that is cool but a fixed frame rate for animation will be easier at the beginning I think.

 

[Bloodbane]

Great work!

Glad you decided to rework on his combo, I don't like his original combo.
And being secret char he lacks lots of moves compared to original playables. So aside of combo, what other moves you are going to add?

As for your dislike to Zan and Skate, it's okay. It's best to focus on just single character. In fact, why not make mod with just Shiva as playable?

 

[Mr.Din]

Great work!

Glad you decided to rework on his combo, I don't like his original combo.
And being secret char he lacks lots of moves compared to original playables. So aside of combo, what other moves you are going to add?

As for your dislike to Zan and Skate, it's okay. It's best to focus on just single character. In fact, why not make mod with just Shiva as playable?

would be cool to see Shiva's story

 

[NED]

Glad to see it was just some combo test.

THe combo you think to use with 2 straights etc seem to be avery good one!

About color error, you're not stupid.
We all do errors by spriting.
Eye cannot catch all color differences.

But it's always good to see it early, so if you frankensprite these legs for another sprite, you will not copy again and again the bad color.
But, I'm pretty sure you already know it...

 

[patataboy]

Thanks for all the encouraging comments, that really boost my moral up (and I need it seeing how much work I still need to do for what I want to do with Shiva.

And you are right, because I'm quite slow ... I will definitely make a Shiva only side story and then work on other playable characters if peoples like what I have done.

I fixed (I think ...) the color problem. But I'm still wondering how did you pick that mistake up ...... hawkeye is that you?

And for those who want to see what will some of the moves be, you can directly go to where I store my sprite online
It is : h.t.t.p://olivier.pignot.free.fr/SOR/ the main work is made on the shivatest.xcf (Gimp is my friend)
I always upload my WIP so I can access it wherever I am.
As it is a WIP, it is pretty messy

 

[patataboy]

Seeing how tricky some of the moves I want to put in are going to be ... I will need to do some rotoscoping to pick up the right pose of JKD for the punches as the Fei Long poses are far from accurate.
The idea is to use JKD speed, Kyokushin's power.

And now that I'm seeing it move at the same speed as the rest of the animation : I really need to work on the original flame kick.

 

[NED]

Yes I'm Hawkeye

So you're in martial arts, I was pretty sure, seeing your martial arts reference.
I practised Kung-fu for 9 years, and alway be interested in rotoscoping. You will just use a camera and redraw on pictures or it's more complcated?

 

[patataboy]

Yes I'm Hawkeye

So you're in martial arts, I was pretty sure, seeing your martial arts reference.
I practised Kung-fu for 9 years, and alway be interested in rotoscoping. You will just use a camera and redraw on pictures or it's more complcated?

Even simpler: I found a video on youtube (there are much more talented people than me out there) with the move and the angle I want. Save it on my computer using Video Download Helper on Firefox.
Then I make my gimp ready, I play the video, pause on the key frame I need, print my screen then press ctrl+shift+V on Gimp ... and voilà it is on a new window of gimp, after that I just need to resize the character frame space the size of my playable character, select the area I want to use, paste it on my WIP image and that is it .... But that is just the theory, I didn't start rotoscoping yet  and I heard some video codec prevent the image from being captured with the print screen key)
So far I did my sketch using my moves as a reference, by that I mean the way my torso and arm position (this is what makes the illusion of a good move on a sprite for a kick, not the leg so much as the momentum of a powerful kick is 95% of the time made by the upper body ... but if you studied Kung-fu for 9 years, you already know that) if I was to do this move, I'm not good and crazy enough to do the stunt I draw

After is the fastidious work of making it look like shiva  But I have been working with this character for such a long time I'm starting to be able to draw it directly without using already existing part as guidelines

 

[patataboy]

I'm currently working on his flurry combo and a brazilian kick (as it is fast and powerful with a great visual and I think it fits Shiva's fighting style)

 

[Mr.Din]

now that's impressive!  ;D
I'm doing the same thing with Adam, trying to give him more of a combo heavy boxer, I'd say speedy but he's supposed to 2nd slowest to max with a lot of reach and upclose punishment.

 

[patataboy]

Here is one follow up punch after the two back end punches (what really follows instead of the two kicks)

Tell me what I should improve if needed

Still 1 punch, 1 kick and 1 palm strike (with flames of course ... the combo should end with panache) to go


And just finished sketching the Brazilian kick (yeah I always sketch on paper before scanning and adjusting as i did not use rotoscoping yet)

 

[patataboy]

now that's impressive!  ;D
I'm doing the same thing with Adam, trying to give him more of a combo heavy boxer, I'd say speedy but he's supposed to 2nd slowest to max with a lot of reach and upclose punishment.

Thanks

Hey, I love the way you made his standing kamae.
Can I use your work to put my touch on it later (already have an idea to make it look like Cassius Clay with a double inverting guard quick hops)?
But as I'm not a boxer myself, i will definitely do some rotoscoping for Adam

 

[Mr.Din]

Here is one follow up punch after the two back end punches (what really follows instead of the two kicks)

Tell me what I should improve if needed

Still 1 punch, 1 kick and 1 palm strike (with flames of course ... the combo should end with panache) to go


And just finished sketching the Brazilian kick (yeah I always sketch on paper before scanning and adjusting as i did not use rotoscoping yet)

The combo has quite a bit of reach on it, the animation is very fluid and the combo works well for shiva. Though it would be easier to judge with an enemy previewed to see where they'd theoretically would be positioned for the combo.

Thanks

Hey, I love the way you made his standing kamae.
Can I use your work to put my touch on it later (already have an idea to make it look like Cassius Clay with a double inverting guard quick hops)?
But as I'm not a boxer myself, i will definitely do some rotoscoping for Adam

Thank you as well, quick hops? you mean like dudleys?

If so go right ahead! I had that in mind for his "waiting" animation, he'd do the above shown hops then go into his old waiting animation.

Btw I sent you a PM.

 

[patataboy]

About the reach I know I need to be careful with that, but the idea is having a combo that push a bit forward to give an impression of pressure (and I will need to script enemy's going a bit backward as they get hit by the combo or some of them might slip through and end in Shiva's back as the combo goes on, and anyway, being pushed back when rushed ... which is the goal of a rush, is much more natural to me)

Speaking about enemies, I will work on them too to add some attacks (or change the way their attacks look, like the bikers whom have the crappiest move ever) and impact too, I want to try to localize impact by making their sprite move depending on the impact area (it is just 2 or 3 positions)


And yes quite like dudley but maybe replacing some of the hops by 2 sways (you don't see sways so often on boxers waiting animations) ... anyway same ideas on that, I really think Adam can be improved a lot by using some of Dudley's move

 

[Mr.Din]

About the reach I know I need to be careful with that, but the idea is having a combo that push a bit forward to give an impression of pressure (and I will need to script enemy's going a bit backward as they get hit by the combo or some of them might slip through and end in Shiva's back as the combo goes on, and anyway, being pushed back when rushed ... which is the goal of a rush, is much more natural to me)

Speaking about enemies, I will work on them too to add some attacks (or change the way their attacks look, like the bikers whom have the crappiest move ever) and impact too, I want to try to localize impact by making their sprite move depending on the impact area (it is just 2 or 3 positions)


And yes quite like dudley but maybe replacing some of the hops by 2 sways (you don't see sways so often on boxers waiting animations) ... anyway same ideas on that, I really think Adam can be improved a lot by using some of Dudley's move

I agree the rush seems more Shiva's style, I think it can be natural being static or moving forward a little less but the animation would have to be altered in order for that to work. I think the finished combo will ultimately look better

I also agree about the enemies, I think the bikers really got the shaft in moves. Garcia for example has a full combo in SoR1 as well as picking up bats, pipes, knives etc, in SoR2 he basically got stripped down to a jab and walking with a knife but in 3 he gained the elbow, SoRR has him able to pull out a knife (SoR1) and has a wake up attack (SoR3), would be good to combine them into one moveset for him.

As for adam IMO a hop or two works for the stance, or maybe the sway instead. Beat em ups were never known to complicate stances haha.

 

[patataboy]

I think I'm going to give each playable character a more easy to identify martial art and some extra that would fit them but can't be categorized.
Shiva : JKD + Kyokushin + extra
Adam : Boxing + Savate + extra
Axel : kick Boxing + Karate (probably Go jyu ryu) + extra
Blaze : Aikikai + Wushu (Crane Style) + extra

So give me your opinion on the Martial Arts selected and what you would see better instead (as my mind is not set yet)

 

[Mr.Din]

I think with the main cast it's best to expand on what they have first
Adam: there's so much missed potential with boxers in beat em ups that haven't been touched, especially on the more defensive side, bobbing/weaving, upclose haymaker/uppercuts/elbows/etc. He could use a few kicks like the original but I'd love it for more liberties in the boxing area
Axel: well his style is martial arts, I assume mixed martial arts so he has a LOT of potential with pretty much anything. He does seem to be grounded as a brawler overall but I can see a lot of kick boxing, Karate etc. Think Chuck norris
Blaze: this is a hard one, Her overall style is Judo but I can see some Aikido, Wushu working as well.
Shiva: I think he's coming along well, definitely needs brutal moves, stuff that really make someone cringe, I think of a lot of kung fu movie villians with this guy.